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Tuesday 26th December 2006 6:06 am
Youth Discussion: the Role of Adults within Online Teen Spaces
What role should adults play, or not play, within online teen spaces? Global Kids, which works with teens both in person and online, took the question to a number of teens familiar with their work within Teen Second Life (TSL).
If you haven’t heard, Second Life is an online virtual world which saw its two millionth member sign-up just this month. Within Second Life, there is a teen-only environment, as opposed to the main grid, composed of roughly forty thousand residents. Other than the adults who run Second Life, this is a teen-only environment. However, there is one exception. Outside organizations, like Global Kids, can purchase a private “island” which teens can visit; however, adults, who must go through a background check, can not leave these islands.
In this context, we now present four comments that are specifically about the role of adults from Global Kids with TSL. However, other youth have been invited to join the conversation and broaden it from one specifically about TSL to all online youth spaces.
What can adults offer to teen spaces? What does their presence take away? When is it not safe to have adults and teens interact? When are teens ONLY safe when adults are present? Please read the four comments from following TSL residents and post your own thoughts below (please identify whether you are a teen or an adult - an adult is writing this introduction).
Mariel Voyunicef
The reason why I think Global Kids’ adults should stay on the teen grid is very simple: in times like these in which the youth have little contact with adults outside of an academic contexs, we have to take advantage of every single chance to establish a connection with them. As youth, we need to be the bridge between adults and upcoming generations by learning from them - especially on a place that is openly related to activism. There are plenty of places where teens can be alone.
Cheesepuff Barnard
I believe that the role of adults in online youth spaces, if not necessary, should be eliminated completely. Adults have plenty of ways to connect with kids, so why take away the last bit of dignity TSL has managed to keep after being treated so unfairly. I wouldn’t normally complain, but this really is the last straw. If adults are going to be allowed in even two TSL islands, why not let kids be allowed in two main grid [adult] islands? I realize there are legal problems, but I also realize there are legal solutions. Pre-scanning all adult entry. Supervising it with guards, chat and IM supervisors, and robotic chat and IM recorders for when no one is there to manually monitor. There are SO many things to learn on the main grid. This is a bit like the Revolutionary War. A mainland, a colony, and somebody up there trying to take advantage of the colony.
Lucky Figtree
I was very surprised to be asked to write an essay about whether or not Global Kids should continue everything they are doing within Teen Second Life. A good portion of my Second Life experience has been spent working, and learning with them. I can’t imagine not having the GK leaders in-world anymore. Global Kids has reached some amazing firsts for the Teen Grid, and I know that they can continue to do so. There are many teens that think of the Global Kids Islands as a second home (me included). The GK leaders are always throwing out new and interesting ways to become involved. In my eyes, teens are drawn to the island to have a fun time. The GK Leaders almost always have a contest going, and I believe the teens enjoy being challenged in such ways. I believe that Global Kids is truly connecting with the teens that want to learn. They have done so much to educate, and teach; but at the same time allow the teens to have a fun time. Its a great way to learn, and its obviously working. I could not imagine the teen grid without the famous Global Kid dance parties. It just wouldn’t be the same.
Relk Akula
I view Global Kids as a despicable attack on TSL’s existence as a place for teen’s to take a break from real life and be able to have a world entirely grown by them. I also view GK as an attempt to impose their well-meaning, but still imposing beliefs on others, and to mold personalities. Also GK seems likely to be spawned by the same people who create ESRBs (the rating board that attacks games with little detailed descriptions), MPAAs (the movie rating organization prone to giving ratings for speaking up about issues) and probably RIAAs (the music industry association known for blocking free speech and creativity) too.
Category: Unexpected
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Comments
Posted on December 23 2006 1:53 AM
adults in such talks play neither a gud nor a bad role but personally speaking adults often upset the teens with their elderly suggestions.but some are really understanding ones and we enjoy being with them and talking all our personal i.e.we can be so close to them that we are not so close to a teen.
Posted on December 23 2006 4:04 AM
I know my comment’s there, but, now that it’s clear I’m in favour of the presence of GK on TSL, I’d like to comment on the two comments against it.
“Adults have plenty of ways to connect with kids” - But how many of them actually take place in a non-academic, “I’m-older-than-you” environment?
“adults are going to be allowed in even two TSL islands, why not let kids be allowed in two main grid [adult] islands?” - I understand your point and share it to a certain extent, but I don’t think it’s fair at all to use the presence of GK on TSL as an excuse to ask for access of teens into the MG as the purposes of both are absolutely different.
“There are SO many things to learn on the main grid” - I don’t doubt it; however, are you against GK on TSL or do you just want to be able to get into the MG?
“I also view GK as an attempt to impose their well-meaning, but still imposing beliefs on others, and to mold personalities” - Since the moment you are born, you are given information, and you decide what you want to do with it. Global Kids gives you information on TSL; however, the ultimate choice is yours. You decide whether to agree, to do something about it, or simply not to pay attention to them. Because of that, I think Global Kids is far from an ‘imposition’.
Also, we have to take something into account: someone who simply doesn’t wish to receive Global Kids’ information can stay outside the island -that they bought, by the way-.
I don’t mean to offend anyone. I respect your opinions, but I disagree - I don’t find the point in having a GK Island without GKids on it, nor how someone could be affected by the existence of an island he’s not forced to visit.
Posted on December 24 2006 6:00 PM
Well I think I might have been a little brief and I’ve thought of some supporting points to why educators should stay.
Adults can teach teens better through enviroments like SL because instead of just seeing a 2D picture or video we can see a 3D working model. Also adults can teach teens more things then their peers. They can teach things like Science, Math, English, Social Studies, Etc. Which teens can’t normally learn by themselves and enviroments like SL make it easier and more effective for adults to teach teens.
http://relkrecorder.blogspot.com
Posted on December 24 2006 7:44 PM
Could I point out that offline prescense (sp?) as symbols and objects makes it so they are an imposition?
http://relkrecorder.blogspot.com
Posted on December 25 2006 12:44 AM
I am really sorry about how unclear my last post was. What I meant was that GK’s prescense cannot be ignored by avoiding the island. This is because objects from GK are outside the island and they influence people and such. The result is they cannot be ignored because they influence the grid as a whole.
http://greydawning.net/
Posted on December 26 2006 3:25 AM
As for Global Kids having a very limited number of adults on the Teen Grid, I don’t care much one way or another. I think that it’s a good way to get people togethor to communicate, and to discuss important world issues. If they weren’t here, I suppose that someone else might have started a Darfur awareness campaign, myself perhaps. However, I certainly don’t feel that they are in any way HARMING Teen Second Life- my opinions on the grid as a whole are very clear (google my alias, look for ABC and ZD|NET reports), I feel that the Teen Grid is our (the modern teen’s) adaptation of the telephone, or hanging out at a skate-rink. Admittedly, one with a very cool sset of buildign and scripting tools and ways to earn money.
Even the teens of GK seem to be mostly attached to their Islands- I’ve never seen one out as far as my builds in Tolkien, certainly.
Overall, I think it can be agreed that the residents of the Teen Grid could very easily ignore GK altogethor- the adults don’t come out of the sim, or onto our forums, or anywhere else besides their islands. We aren’t exactly forced to come through them before we logon, if we want to ignore what they say, it’s not at all difficult.
Posted on December 26 2006 5:35 PM
In response to Relk;
It is true that you can’t ignore everything that Global Kids is trying to accomplish by just avoiding the islands. However, the surveys, donation boxes and projects that travel outside of the islands could easily be ignored. The land that Global Kids has put the items; or ideas onto is always owned by a teen resident; who has given permission to place it there. We would not be placing the items around; if we did not think teens would benefit from it.
I agree, Aesop. You can’t go anywhere in public without being surrounded by adults. The teen-grid was made for teens, but it has always had adults in it. The Liasions are there to help run the game smoothly; and keep the rules in tact. However the Global Kids adults have had the same background checks that every linden going into the Teen Grid recieves, and while their reason to be in the grid may differ from lindens; they are still helping the grid grow, in many ways.
http://teen.secondlife.com
Posted on December 27 2006 9:50 PM
I’ve found that the Global Kids staff is helpful and friendly. Even if you dislike the institution, get to know the people. They’re very much human, and while they may not be our aged, it’s possible to form a friendship with anyone.
On the topic of if Global Kids should stay on the Teen Grid or not, I see no reason not to allow them there. As has been previously mentioned, you’re not required to do anything in Second Life other than obey the Terms of Service and (except on private estates) Community Standards. You can easily ignore anyone with the word GKid as their last name, or anything owned by, created by, or affiliated with them. Granted, you’ll be missing some content from Second Life, but you don’t have to see what you don’t want to see. If they’re God Teleporting you to the island, using some sort of client hack to keep your connection alive, and showing you things designed specifically to alter your point of view to conform to what they want, then there would be a problem. They’re not.
B.H.Q. Interactive
http://www.isowantone.com/
Posted on December 28 2006 1:37 AM
Although I don’t agree with Relk, I do support my idea of either elimination of adult presence, or addition of teen presence in Adult Second Life. I don’t just want to get into the Main Grid, I want things to have some sense of security instead of the adults having the best of both worlds and the teens being forced to live in a grid that, I might point out, no Lindens have logged onto in over a week. Nice work. Leave teens unsupervised in a closed off space with neon signs exclaiming “HELPLESS TEENS!”.
Global Kids, Inc.
http://holymeatballs.org
Posted on December 28 2006 1:11 PM
This has been a great conversation so far, but I fear it has turned into some what of a lovefest. So as a representative of Global Kids, let me turn the question around: What would Global Kids have to do as adults to betray your trust in us? What would we have to do to cross a line which, afterwards, we could not cross back.
Don’t worry - we are not looking for suggestions! But what role should adults NOT play within online teen spaces?
Posted on December 28 2006 1:58 PM
Well...I addressed my thoughts on this matter on my blog on Holymeatballs...but I guess this is the proper place to put it; so I will copy and paste it---err...quote myself o.O which ever… I don’t know how the people who are against adults in TSL will look at this blog considering that I am a “GKid"--but I would like to remind you that I am also a teenager...and I was a teenager long before I was a GKid ^^~
“A lot of people do not like adults in Teen Second Life. I really do not understand why that is. Well, actually I can understand their reasons, but they are not very good reasons. The adults that come on to TSL are really objective as in the actions they take. I do not think that they are interfering with anyone on TSL’s private business. Sure, if someone came on Global Kids Island, and they acted horribly, and said things they probably should not, then they will take action-but that should be expected. Teens are not allowed to do just ANYTHING they want on TSL-especially not anything that may be offensive to others. Like any other website, forum and etc, things like bad behavior and flaming is not allowed. But otherwise, I think, as far as not getting involved in what teens do, all the TSL Approved Adults are doing their job right. Plus, I know that TSL is basically built off of teens but I don’t think that teens could have gathered together and organized a competition like the UNICEF A World Fit For Children Contest. And if they could organize such a thing, and get so many people involved, and put together prizes, then for all those who believe that adults should be allowed in TSL, consider trying this as a challenge. I would really like to see Teens gather together and make a contest this big with that many participants. I do not think that teens can do everything on their own; I think sometimes we do need guidance for someone older. I guess that’s why we have Lindens, because if we need help then we go to them anyway, and are they not adults? I don’t know, but I believe that the adults should be allowed to stay in TSL but then again, this is only my opinion and I can understand that not everyone will see this in the same way. But, for those people who do not see it in my way, I do think that they should come to Global Kids Island once and see all the wonderful things that are on it, and meet one of the adults and talk to them and perhaps, then they will change their minds, because they are great people ^^ and they deserve a chance.”
And in response to Relk… ^^;; well, if your saying that the things on GK Island influence the rest of the grid...do they influence teens in a bad way? Because GK island is to inform teens on world issues ^^--and knowledge is power [not to sound power-hungry or anything...]! I guess, I’m thinking about it in this way: we’re teens on TSL...doing whatever we want...because we are privileged enough to be capable of doing so. But there are teens out there in this world who are not as privileged...so we should take some time out in our oh-so-busy lives to learn something about them. I’ve never before believed that one person can make a difference...but after joining GK...I think I am kind of starting to believe that. Even so, I do think that strength is within numbers. And, if enough teens come together and see all the things that are going on in the world, maybe we will be grateful for what we have--and maybe we can do something to help in the future… Christmas just passed, along with a lot of other holidays, and I’m sure we all got something--but a lot of people arenít that fortunate...But yeah...I guess this is just my opinion on things, and I can understand that others may see things differently… But I am going to ask that everyone give the adults a chance...because there is a difference between adults and teens--and that is, that adults have experienced what being a teenager is like--but teens have not experienced what being an adult is like. Although, we do live in different times, I think for the most part...the whole teenage phase--rebellious behavior--has been pretty much the same. SO I do think that the adults deserve a chance ^^ (i know...this is repetition XD)
http://teen.secondlife.com
Posted on December 28 2006 9:15 PM
Personally, I hold the GKid adults (and kids) for that matter, to the same standards I hold everyone to. If I ask someone not to do something, and they do, or vice versa, I’ll ask them for an explanation. If it’s not satisfactory, I won’t trust them any more. I also wouldn’t trust anyone who came right out and declared that they intended to betray that trust once I offered it to them. Finally, people who knowingly attempt (regardless of their success) to hurt me lose my trust, because I value my health and well being. That’s about it for me. Hope that helps a bit Barry, though I doubt it’s the kind of answer you were looking for. :D
Posted on December 29 2006 5:20 PM
Perhaps having inference in subjects that are not related to Global Kids Island only. Perhaps reporting teens to Lindens instead of simply expelling them from the Island in case they did something against the rules. Perhaps betraying your own rules as adults and TSL users.
Just… the ‘normal’ things, I guess. o.O
Posted on December 30 2006 7:49 AM
Hello, I think that Global Kids adults should stay on TSL. They are very good people to talk too, They educate you too and they run sevral workshops thoughout the year. The workshops are allways fun and you get something out of it too. For those people who dont like Global Kids or any other adults on the Teen Grid just stay away
Thanks Storm
http://greydawning.net/jackson
Posted on January 2 2007 12:20 AM
Global Kids has been a very inspiring and thoughtful organization throughout the time that I have spent in Second Life. They raise awareness on issues that the grid would otherwise possibly go unnoticed.
Some may argue that the teen grid was meant for teens, and adult intervention is unnecessary and is a violation of our personal space. On the other hand, teens can stay away from GK island, as mentioned above. Although they may not be able to completely stay away from the island in terms of the environment that we are in, those who choose can certainly not participate in anything that happens on the island. The various Coalitions on the island certainly can, and do influence grid-wide discussion and actions, it is their choice, and they should not be stopped.
When thinking about this question as a whole, Global Kids has been a positive experience for myself, along with many of my friends in the metaverse. Had Global Kids been forced to leave, the teen grid would be losing our best knowledge and learning resource.
http://relkrecorder.blogspot.com
Posted on January 4 2007 6:22 PM
Lucky, the problem is these objects are there. You see them, hear people talking.
The presence is there and ignoring it is not possible.
When you say you wouldn’t be placing if you didn’t think teens would benefit, your admitting that placing the objects is imposing your belief.
B.H.Q. Interactive
http://www.isowantone.com
Posted on January 17 2007 9:55 PM
The main issue I have with the Global Kids is not them betraying our trust, but Linden Labs in general. If they want to make it extremely clear that no overaged players will be on TSL, then don’t turn around and do the opposite of the rules. If you want to lift the over 18 rule, fine, I don’t have a problem with it. I just have a problem with one specific group being excepted from the rules.
Posted on January 18 2007 2:45 AM
‘The main issue I have with the Global Kids is not them betraying our trust, but Linden Labs in general. If they want to make it extremely clear that no overaged players will be on TSL, then don’t turn around and do the opposite of the rules. If you want to lift the over 18 rule, fine, I don’t have a problem with it. I just have a problem with one specific group being excepted from the rules.’
Alright. So what your saying is you have a problem with Global Kids, because of Linden Labs? That makes alot of sense. Global Kids is just an organization that was looking for a way to reach teens; and found Second Life. If it is the rule that Linden Labs has issued; then don’t complain about Global Kids. Its not their fault. If you want to do something about Linden Labs’ rule; take it up with them.
Global Kids, Inc.
http://holymeatballs.org
Posted on January 19 2007 1:09 PM
For clarification, adults are allowed on the main grid only under very specific and restrictive conditions.
1) All adults have to go through a criminal background check
2) The adults have to own an island.
3) The adults are locked to that island and can never leave it, neither to the teen mainland nor the adult grid.
Global Kids is about to celebrate its first year in the teen grid, but dozens of other adults are there. However, they are less visible than Global Kids because their islands are private, which means teens from the mainland can not visit them. As a result, while it might appear that an exception has been made for Global Kids, the fact is we have just been one of the few organizations who have opened up our projects to the teen public.
B.H.Q. Interactive Services
http://www.isowantone.com/
Posted on February 4 2007 3:18 PM
‘Alright. So what your saying is you have a problem with Global Kids, because of Linden Labs? That makes alot of sense. Global Kids is just an organization that was looking for a way to reach teens; and found Second Life. If it is the rule that Linden Labs has issued; then don’t complain about Global Kids. Its not their fault. If you want to do something about Linden Labs’ rule; take it up with them.’
And I intend to, as I stated. “The main issue I have with the Global Kids is NOT them betraying our trust, but LINDEN LABS in general.” I realize that, yes, Global Kids is a great foundation. They help people across the world, and I respect them for that. The problem I have, and have had, is that they, and other adult organizations are to be let onto the Teen Grid, no matter what previous rules state. I can tell you that, the way things are going, adults will sign up for TSL, buy a lower priced sim, and transfer it 1 month later. We need to set some solid rules down. Flexibility is NOT a good thing here, and LL needs to wake up and see that. Consistency, consistency, consistency. That’s what we need. Make an education grid, just separate this from the Teen Grid. I don’t want Teen Second Life to be a lab experiment to see what and what does not work; I just want a place to build, script, and work. It’s amazing how many people don’t understand that.
Linden Lab employee
http://teen.secondlife.com/
Posted on March 1 2007 5:29 PM
Just to quickly clear up a couple misconceptions mentioned here…
- Lindens are inworld and availble to teen residents 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. This has always been the case.
- The difference between minors and adults is a legal distinction. The age requirement for Second Life reflects this.
- The non-profit/educational discount applies to islands on both grids. As such, there is no financial incentive for adults to buy teen grid estates.
Hope that helps
B.H.Q. Interactive Services
http://www.isowantone.com/
Posted on March 25 2007 11:06 PM
No, it doesn’t help anything. They weren’t misconceptions, rather than predictions. I still think that TSL is losing its sense of rules. We simply cannot lay down rules, and break them right away! At least stop calling it the teen grid, at this point, it doesn’t really deserve that name. Call it the near everybody is homeless grid. Call it the being taken over by adults grid. But don’t you sit there in some office chair, watching the servers crash continuously, and lie to me that it is the teen grid. It’s not.
Global Kids
http://holymeatballs.org
Posted on April 7 2007 1:00 PM
On December 22nd, Global Kids began this conversation on the MacArthur Spotlight regarding, in general, the role of adults in online teen spaces and, in specific, the role of adults in the teen grid of Second Life.
While the conversation began here it has continued in numerous locations online: http://www.holymeatballs.org/2006/12/blog_what_role_should_adults_p.html
Well, just over three months later, after all of these discussions and, most recently, inspired to act (in part) by Cheesepuff’s quote from the previous post, Linden Lab, which runs Second Life, has instituted a major policy change in the geography of Teen Second Life, in response to the youth’s concerns, to both support an adult presence in Teen Second Life under certain circumstances but enhance the teen-centric nature of the space.
The youth spoke, beginning here, and they were heard. Kudos for Linden Lab for taking action so quickly and effectively.
For more details, please go here: http://www.holymeatballs.org/2007/04/sl_global_kids_and_tsl_residen.html
http://tattoos.iphorum.com
Posted on April 25 2007 10:09 PM
Thanks for helping to spread the word about the important conversation Global Kids is leading amongst youth about the role they see for adults in their online spaces.
TheCoolLeader Boyer
Posted on December 22 2006 8:35 PM
Go GKids! SL is such a good teaching tool it would be a shame if the Gkids left.